alt_hydra: (Default)
[personal profile] alt_hydra
Sally Anne and I paid Professor Dolohov a visit yesterday afternoon. We said I wanted to do some summer reading on poisons and antidotes and asked to borrow some books. Well, that's what Sally Anne says we asked him - I don't actually remember the conversation at all, I only remember what I saw when I legilimised him.

First off, it's hard to me to say whether what I saw were his actual memories, or things he was just imagining. I don't really know how to tell the difference. There are a few I am fairly sure are actual memories because they seemed to have a lot of emotion attached to them.

One of them is about some of us. He does remember hexing and duelling us, and he feels horrified about it. I saw me and Justin and Sally Anne, and the masks we were wearing were flickering like candlelight, which doesn't mean that the masks were actually flickering, I think it's just the moment where he figured out who we were. I don't think he realises that Hermione was the other one he hexed, though.

And then there's a part that wasn't a memory, I think, but imagining. He petrified Sally Anne and took off her mask and said "what are you doing here?"

So, he wants to know what we were doing.

And then I saw some imaginings about Hector and Arista - running through the forest, hiding under a bed and inside a cupboard. Disappearing into a door in the floor. I think he's desperate to know what we did with them. But even so, I could feel that he doesn't want to ask, because he doesn't want to act on what the answer is. It didn't stop him from thinking about it more, though. He wondered if they might be at Pansy's house, or somewhere at Malfoy Manor.

Then it changed a bit and became more solid, into a memory. He had his wand outstretched and Mr Selwyn was on the ground in front of him. He felt very powerful and cruel and he liked it. I think he was cruciating Mr Selwyn, maybe worse. Only it was strange because there was regret there, too. I don't know how someone can feel regretful and powerful and cruel all at once but he did. And Mr Selwyn was gasping and in pain and could barely speak, but he managed to and he said that he would give Professor Dolohov his library, that he was the best person to have his books, and then he asked him, if he could, to protect his children, to not let them pay for his mistakes. And then Professor Dolohov told him that the best way to protect his children was to cooperate. Mr Selwyn sort of turned away and closed his eyes, then, like he was waiting for it to start all over again.

And the whole time, the Lord Protector's new horrible face would sort of float into the vision, but then it would go away. And sometimes I would see it and hear Mr Selwyn's voice at the same time, saying that "we're all playthings to be broken." I think Professor Dolohov is trying not to think about the Lord Protector and what Mr Selwyn said.

Well, it was really an awful lot more confusing than I've just made it sound, but that's how I've made sense of it. Also, somewhere in there he thought about how he had to use the loo, but I don't think that's important.

2013-06-06 19:17 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (someday I will be taller)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
So he knows Draco and Pansy were there, or at least he thinks they were since he's imagining Arista and Hector hidden in their houses, but he's not imagining Arista and Hector with Mrs Weasley so probably he doesn't know Ron was there.

Because really, if you had to guess 'who'd hide a little kid' wouldn't Mrs Weasley be your first guess?

Hydra do you think he let us get away because he wanted us to save Hector and Arista? If he did then why did he almost kill me? I would swear he did NOT know it was me when we crossed wands. And why is he imagining taking off my mask? UGH.

2013-06-06 19:33 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (This conversation is making me nervous)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Okay

yes

that makes sense.

I don't think he knows where Ron lives but he knows what his mum looks like, I think, there were pictures of their family in the Prophet after Mr Weasley died.

2013-06-06 19:37 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (I know better than to meet your eyes)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
You're not supposed to be able to cruciate someone if you feel pity or compassion but 'regret,' it's not completely impossible as long as it's just a remote sort of regret, like 'the necessity of this makes me sad' rather than 'it upsets me to see you in pain.'

They were friends, I think. Mr Selwyn and Professor Dolohov. I saw them writing each other in the journals.

2013-06-06 19:20 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (I will find a way)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
And thank you.

I could tell that was really hard on you. You looked so sick afterward, I almost took you to the Hospital Wing.

I wish I thought

Mind reading is a bit less scary now, I have to say. I mean if MLE ever interrogates me I'll know they're interrogating me and I'll use my ring. But I worry sometimes about someone like your Mum just catching my eye and seeing EVERYTHING but actually, probably she'd see me thinking about how I needed to use the loo and where's my quill and what's that I smell for dinner? Most of the time I'm not thinking about how I'm HAPPILY COMMITTING TREASON or whatever.

2013-06-06 19:37 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (Meh.)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
I try to occlude all the time, to make it a habit, but yes, if I'm anywhere near your mother I'm extra careful. Like at the wedding, since she was there.

2013-06-06 19:39 (UTC)
alt_justin: (choqué)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_justin
Hullo, Dux,

I say, that explains rather a lot about my careers advice.

I'd asked Professor Sprout to include Professor Brutka, what, because I thought we could talk about the Order and how I could help, when one can more or less assume the Ministry will want me to go round promoting their propaganda machine. I'd planned to ask Professor Sprout to just write down that I was hoping for a minor Ministry posting, perhaps in Communications or something like that.

But Professor Dolohov was there, not Professor Brutka. He spent nearly the whole time asking about my Noble Arts examinations and trying hard to convince me to work with him over the summer before we start N.E.W.T.-level, what, which he seemed to think I should be taking regardless of whether the Ministry would require it or not. It was well disconcerting.

It must be because he had recognised us, what? I mean to say, he's seen us duel in Duelling Club and he's seen our spellwork in lessons all year. And I suppose we I rather gave up the game when I suddenly started to engage him, after you fell, Dux. So perhaps it's not too surprising. It's lucky he's apparently discounted the possibility that Hermione was with us.

I wonder how long he'll be content to trust that Arista and Hector are all right, or before someone makes him start probing deeper. Perhaps if he's given out that they're dead as well, we needn't worry. Still, it's bally well worrisome to consider that the only thing standing between us and a load of uncomfortable questions from Barty sodding Crouch is Professor Dolohov, what!

-Justin

2013-06-06 19:45 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (looking thinking)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
That's a good point.

What did he think about Mr Crouch?

2013-06-06 19:55 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (looking thinking)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
And it makes me think about that conversation you and Hydra overheard. Where Mr Lestrange and Professor Dolohov and other people were talking about who might be recruited for the Council.

And they talked about Draco, and me, and you, and Sally-Anne, didn't they?

I wonder if that'd be something we ought to aim for.

2013-06-06 19:57 (UTC)
alt_harry: (bit sad Y5)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_harry
You'd have to do awful things, Pans.

Really awful things.

2013-06-06 20:00 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (looking thinking)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
Who knows, Harry?

If you're going to be a part of it, for instance, or maybe even be in charge of it some day, I'd rather some of us be there too, if we can.

And we'll do what we have to do.

2013-06-06 20:03 (UTC)
alt_draco: (altogether alert)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_draco
In order to stand a chance against that lot I reckon you have to have killed a few people and then some, and be entirely not fussed about killing again.

Right then, who's ready to start training?

2013-06-06 20:13 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (newme)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
We can't depend on Expelliarmus and binding hexes, that's for certain. Not if we want to stay alive.

2013-06-06 20:16 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (surely you are having me on)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Oh and here I thought I did so well with 'petrificus totallis.'

I'm clearly utterly unsuited to cross wands with anyone outside a classroom exercise.

I draw fire rather effectively, at least.

2013-06-06 20:19 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (looking thinking)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
I think we're the only people in our class who have even come close to a proper fight ever outside of a classroom.

Those idiots in the duelling club thing don't count.

So you might end up being brilliant at it.

2013-06-06 20:22 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (Meh.)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
I'm brilliant at almost getting killed.

At least I didn't wet myself from utter terror, but that was probably only because I went to the loo before we left.

Private Message to Sally-Anne

2013-06-06 20:24 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (keeping laughter in)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
I have no doubt Crabbe would've vommed, and wept like a baby, AND wet himself.

As would most of the people in our class.

Re: Private Message to Sally-Anne

2013-06-06 20:25 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (that is excellent news then)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
You're probably right about Crabbe.

2013-06-06 20:04 (UTC)
alt_justin: (plein d'assurance)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_justin
To be completely honest, love, a year has been more than enough. I'm quite hoping I shall only receive an 'A' on the O.W.L. and shan't be eligible to continue at N.E.W.T.

I'm considering withdrawing even if I do manage an 'E,' what?

Oh, and I'm not saying I'd rather we didn't know, what, I'm saying that I wish I could think of a way to reassure him without putting ourselves deeper into the mix, if you follow me.

-J

2013-06-06 20:10 (UTC)
alt_draco: (listlessly listening)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_draco
You really think you ought to turn down what he could teach you? Makes about as much sense as Hydra wishing her legilimency away.

At least you know you're suited to each other.

2013-06-06 20:23 (UTC)
alt_justin: (fâché)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_justin
Draco,

I think there are certain boundaries one ought not to cross, what, and I think Professor Dolohov is bally well uncommonly clever at making it seem as if crossing those lines is reasonable and all part of an academic exercise. I suspect he has deliberately been as charming as possible so far and that he plans to capitalise on his students' affection for him as a stimulating professor and one who presents his topic in a riveting, dynamic fashion, so that when he gets round to teaching the truly diabolical magic, his students have been lulled into believing it shan't do any harm to test one's skills, or that pleasing him and earning good marks are more important than considering the consequences of performing the spells as he is teaching them.

Hydra can't help that she's a legilimens. But I can jolly well show the restraint and good sense not to cast spells that will cause irreparable harm. Professor Dolohov told us this year that one must always exhibit that restraint, what, but when faced with us in the guise of enemies, he showed no mercy. Only his realisation that we were his students stayed his hand--and only the fact that they wanted to save the intruders for questioning led him to cast incapacitating spells. Even at that, he nearly killed Sally-Anne, what? I believe that if he hadn't concluded we were saving Mr Selwyn's children, he would certainly have come back to find out why we were there. And he bally well might not have scrupled against using more dark magic to force us to answer, if necessary, despite being his students.

So, no, thank you. I for one shall very happily forego his brand of magic. I'm certain the Order have alternatives that are just as effective but nowhere near as vicious, what.

Cheers,

-Justin

2013-06-06 20:47 (UTC)
alt_draco: (darkly discerning)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_draco
Crossing those lines is reasonable if you are up against others who cross those lines all the time. To not cross them is idiotic.

Why should any of us be willing to die, but not willing to kill the people who would kill us without a thought?

Of course he's deliberately charming and riveting. He's a Slytherin. Do you somehow doubt you ability to see through this and not have your own personal values tainted or otherwise warped? Why? Is it because you already are juggling so many personas and fear that to take on another will put strain on the rest? Do you really think we'd let you turn into the next incarnation of Antonin Nikolaevich something something Dolohov?

I guess where we might differ is that I don't give a shite about dying as some noble, innocent, righteous person. No, I care about not dying. I care, in fact, about all of us not dying. Some more than others but that can't be helped.

If the Order have alternatives I'd like to know what they are, especially since as far as I can tell, most of what they do involves hiding. Oh, and more hiding. And smuggling stuff. And the occasional pep talk. My own theory? They're spread too thin and as such are too focused on feeding themselves, stealing wands, and saving muggleborns. Noble? Oh, but of course. Effective?

We're still waiting on that one.

I agree with what both you and Dolohov say on one thing, though: restraint is well and good and if you don't have it you'll probably end up badly or do something you otherwise regret. And look at that - looks like he's teaching you anyway, despite your resistance.

2013-06-07 02:37 (UTC)
alt_justin: (n'importe quel)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_justin
I do see your point, old man, and there is logic to it. But to answer you, no, I'm not afraid I should succumb to his bally old seduction into dark arts, what, but that in order to continue fooling him, I shall have no choice but to cast spells and commit to memory methods of fighting that would inevitably come out in the heat of battle (assuming we are destined to do battle again, what). I'm not certain I could stomach myself if it came to that.

I say, it's not that I'm not willing to defend myself, or Hydra, or Sally-Anne or any of us, when called upon to do so. Nor that I'm not willing to learn anything from him, what. On the other hand, I've no wish to compromise my principles, which is of course what Professor Dolohov has planned for us all. Besides, I have what I consider to be jolly well sensible reasons not to subject myself to his scrutiny any more than necessary.

-Justin

2013-06-07 02:47 (UTC)
alt_justin: (Quel dommage!)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_justin
Oh, and I forgot to say: I do agree with you, about the Order being stretched too thin. That's precisely why I intend to join them, what, to add to the ranks.

I've no doubt they also wish it were as easy as fighting fire with fire. Unfortunately, I'd be well surprised if that approach works when it comes to magic that forever changes one's lines of moral demarcation.

And of course, one needn't kill to cross those lines, either. There are plenty of spells that aren't lethal but that subjugate one's victim.

-Justin

2013-06-07 06:42 (UTC)
alt_terry: (Terry assessing)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_terry
Why should any of us be willing to die, but not willing to kill the people who would kill us without a thought?

As the only person on this lock who has ever actually faced this decision, or something close to it, I reckon I should answer.

Killing someone changes you. I am not sure I can explain it, except that the life you lived before is completely over, and you will never get it back. Even if the person you killed was as despicable and evil as the git was.

The only reason I could live with myself afterwards is that first of all, it wasn't really a decision at all. Well, literally. The Professor, uh, I guess, just sort of tapped into whatever wolf is in his ancestry, and so I tore out the git's throat out of sheer survival animal instinct. It was self defence.

It took Mr Longbottom and Sirius Black a long time to get it through my thick skull: I'm not a murderer.

But I am a killer.

I will always be someone who has killed. And as much as I loathed him, I wish that wasn't true. I tasted his blood in my mouth for months afterward. And the worst thing is you start to see yourself turning into exactly what you hated.

It's easy to scoff at innocence as worthless. Until you've lost it.

2013-06-07 16:33 (UTC)
alt_draco: (practically poker-faced)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_draco
You just said it wasn't a decision, it was instinct. I want my instinct to be able to match theirs.

If losing my 'innocence' is the price then I'm willing to pay it. Finch-Fletchley is free to make his own choice, but I'm also free to think he's making a mistake.

Most of us are already changed, don't you think? There's no going back now.

2013-06-07 14:00 (UTC)
alt_neville: (Default)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_neville
No, now you know that's not true, that 'most of what the Order does is hide' if you think about it. What about all the wanted posters about my parents, and the people that they've killed? Unless you think they're lies. But I happen to know they're not. Dad's admitted to me that both he and Mum have killed people, although he doesn't like to talk about it and he's certainly not boasting about it. They were in some real running battles over the years. More when we were little, which was why they gave Ev and me up to Gran in the first place. There may have been some more recently, too.

But something happened that made them think they had to change their tactics. Maybe it was realising that if they didn't snatch the muggle born babies, they'd lose the next generation. Maybe they realised they needed to have wands to give those babies, as well as all of the muggle borns that had them confiscated. So they started going after wands.

In other words, they're building an army. Which is not exactly hiding.

I know Dad has studied about the Dark Arts--the Noble Arts, if you like--because he's had to personally face those curses. There are a lot of books about Dark curses in his Auror library. Not so much about how to do them. More about how to defend against them, and heal the damage they cause. But he thinks it's a really bad idea to use them himself. Well, I couldn't swear to it that he's never used them, but he certainly avoids them. Given all of his experience in battle, it's clear that it's not that he's unwilling to kill, and given how close some of those battles have been, and how he barely got away with the skin of his teeth, I reckon he'd want any advantage he could get, if he thought it was worth it. Which means, I guess, that his experience--battle experience--has convinced him those arts aren't worth the disadvantages. I reckon we can learn more about that when we join the Order.

2013-06-07 16:52 (UTC)
alt_draco: (altogether alert)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_draco
Well they didn't kill Raz, so they can't have been that good at it. But even so, do you really think they were killing people by pushing them off cliffs and such? I can't think of any curse that ends up with the other person dead that isn't dark.

Not an entirely inane idea, building an army, but an army needs to be trained and fed and organised, which has to be an enormous strain on resources. Not to mention time and planning. And how will they know when their army is built and ready? Is it all about waiting until the muggleborn babies are grown? Do those babies even get a choice in whether they become soldiers or not? Sounds like the sort of arrangement where, in exchange for a wand, you're expected to put it to good use for the Order one day.

I'm not saying that's what it is, I'm saying that's what it sounds like.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think Sirius Black had it right with the Grim Truths. You have to reach the people and change them. The problem is that he wasn't and isn't the right person for the message. He is a fugitive and a boogeyman. Even if what he says niggles at a person, in the end they'll do what they're told because that's what they know, and what you know always feels safe, even if it isn't.

But it sounds like Dominic Selwyn might have been the right person.

2013-06-07 19:34 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (I don't want to talk about it right now.)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Yeah.

How many people are even going to hear his message, though? It's not as if he can write in his journal anymore.

2013-06-07 19:43 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (I will find a way)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Neville those wanted posters are for things your parents did years ago. YEARS ago. Back when they were the Aurors and Barty Crouch and Bellatrix Lestrange were the fugitives on the other side of the law.

And Draco's right, if it's a spell that's used to kill people that's 'Dark Arts,' those are 'Dark Spells,' I mean your Mum messed up Rabastan Lestrange so badly he still limps, that wasn't Stupefy or Petrificus Totallis or Expelliarmus they hit him with, they were hitting him with something that could kill him. (Not Avada Kedavra obviously or he'd be dead. But whatever spell they used, it's not going to be taught in Defence. It's not going to be taught in Charms. It's going to be taught in Dark Arts, or not at all.)

2013-06-06 23:14 (UTC)
alt_ron: (34_determined)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_ron
Yeah. I disagree. Or, well, not exactly. That may be the right decision for you, but see, if I pull a high enough OWL mark, I'll go on with it.

I think some of us have got to learn as much as he'll teach us. So we know what they're going to use against us.


And, yeah. I guess that means I agree with Malfoy.

2013-06-07 00:41 (UTC)
alt_draco: (really resigned)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_draco
I'm fine with him not agreeing with me, or anyone else for that matter. Doesn't mean I won't argue the other side.

How do you reckon you did on the exam?

2013-06-07 02:55 (UTC)
alt_ron: (34_yeah)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_ron
Better than I really should've, actually. On the practical, they just asked me to put a blood lock on a box, and then when the examiner--that really ancient chap--couldn't get in or break the lock, then I had to take it off. And I did. So, y'know, I didn't remember everything on the written, but I figure it wasn't a disaster, either.

I expect you'll have an O, yeah?

2013-06-07 02:38 (UTC)
alt_justin: (Je vois)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_justin
Ron,

Fair enough. I've no objection to learning what they might use against us but I don't think that it's necessary to learn how to cast what they might use. To each his own, of course.

-Justin

2013-06-07 03:00 (UTC)
alt_ron: (14_ron)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_ron
It's more that if you know what it takes to cast those things, you know where the weak side will be if some tries using them against you. I realised this term that you learn a lot of that sort of thing by trying it.

And maybe it won't matter. I mean, maybe I won't have done well enough. But if I do, then I'll have to figure out what to tell Mum. It would be easier if I could still just talk to Dad about this sort of thing. But, yeah.

2013-06-07 04:34 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (This conversation is making me nervous)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Well

I wrote to him today to ask about the NEWT class. Madam Pomfrey thought this would be a good time to drop it.

He said, hang on.

'My NEWT classes are a departure from OWL-level classes. Over the two-year curriculum, we explore ritual and cooperative magic, cursed and magic-infused objects (the making, safe handling, and disposal thereof), warding, runework, and certain non-Western traditions, in addition to delving more deeply into the history and theory of the Noble Arts than we have had time to do thus far this year. In addition to that, though, I will also be teaching fundamental and underlying skills that should serve you in excellent stead in your future endeavours no matter what they might be: logic, rhetoric, how to perform research, how to evaluate sources, and how to compose an argument (and evaluate and refute an incorrect argument put forth by others).'

So here's the thing. NO ONE ELSE teaches ANYTHING about most of this. We do a little bit in runes with objects and in Charms we'll learn the Protean Charm but not much else about objects. No one else talks about ritual and cooperative magic, and that's what the Fidelius Charm is, you know, I looked it up. Acton isn't going to cover it, or anything like it. It's not even remotely Dark Arts but I bet Dolohov would, if we asked him -- though not this week because the absolutely LAST thing I need is to get him thinking about precisely what secrets I might want to magically hide. Although probably he'd figure we wanted to hide Arista and Hector really, really, really well.

2013-06-06 19:43 (UTC)
alt_pansy: (newme)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_pansy
Mr Selwyn really was something else, wasn't he? Saying those things even when he was hurting so badly and knew he was going to die. And trying to do what he did in the first place, too.

I wish I'd known him better.

And it makes sense that he wouldn't want to know where Hector and Arista were, because then he'd have to do something about it.

I'm sorry it gave you a turn, Hydra.

2013-06-06 20:16 (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (I don't want to talk about it right now.)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Yes.

It makes me think you really never know, about people.

Well, except for Hydra's terrifying mum. I think we know about her.

2013-06-07 01:05 (UTC)
alt_terry: (Default)
- Posted by [personal profile] alt_terry
I know you struggled with the decision of whether or not to do this, Hydra, but I must say, I do think the risk has paid off really well. You did learn some valuable information. Somewhat reassuring, too: it doesn't sound like he's biding his time before handing you lot over to the Aurors, and now we have a pretty good idea of why.

Still, if his curiosity about what happened to Arista and Hector get to be too strong for him...uh, yeah.

I'm sure you're all watching your step around him.

I've met them both, by the way, and everyone here is doing their best to help them settle in as much as possible. You can tell she's a little freaked out about the sort of people she's around now--the 'M' word, I mean--although at least she's trying to be polite about it. But she warmed up to me more than most, because she's charmed and fascinated by the Professor.

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Hydra Lestrange Finch-Fletchley

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